Gasket Valves for JDR Trochilus harmonicas?

[Marty]

The new JDR Trochilus harmonica is a valveless 10-hole with a button, offering a number of color coded configurations including:
- Richter Tuned (they call it Blues tuning) in color blue comb (1/2 step up with the button)
- Paddy Richter - Red Comb
- Solo Tuning - Yellow Comb (valvless chromatic)

I have the Richter tuned and am impressed with the quality and air tightness. It's like the old Hohner Koch (a Richter diatonic with a button when pressed brings you up a half-step), but not stiff and leaky like the Koch was. It bends like a regular diatonic with the added advantage of pressing the button and getting a 1/2 step up.

I do however, miss getting the expression (and added notes) offered by half-valving. I half-valve all my diatonics and use Brendan's excellent Gasket valves on all of them. I know that Brendan recently updated the Gasket valves with new and better material. But I can attest that the 1st generation Gasket valves are still working excellently on all my diatonics (set of 8). I was an early adaptor.

I know that the JDR Trochilus Richter tuned gives me many of the notes already (with the button 1/2 step up), so why need the half-valved options? Why the redundancy? Well, it's the expressive note bending offered by half-valving that I love, and having more options for notes with the Richter tuned Trochilus button would be a great combination.

I will also soon be purchasing the solo tuned JDR Trochilus. This will be a valvless chromatic, smaller than a regular 10-hole chromatic, slightly bigger than a regular blues harp, but small enough to cup like a blues harp, giving all the wah expression of cupping that I presently miss in the bigger chromes.

I am expecting this to be an excellent harp also, but I suspect I will miss the advantages of valving (and half-valving that Brendan uses), in terms of valved bends etc.

I may attempt to half-valve these harps myself, but given that the layout is in a smaller form factor, it may be tricky to add the valves, as its pretty tight in there. Plus the layout of the reeds on this new harmonica is probably not the standard layout, so I may be a bit lost as how to do it.

I think that Brendan's Gasket Valve system would be a great offering for this harmonica, and for those that realize the advantages of valving and half-valving. The JDR Trochilus harmonica is a great innovation (in terms of design and off-the-shelf quality) and I suspect will be around for awhile. Brendan's Gasket Valve system would certainly be a value added upgrade, for an already great harp.

Would love to hear from any others who have tried the JDR Trochilus harmonicas. And of course hearing Brendan's thoughts on this would be delightful

Marty Howe

[dominico]

I have one in A/Bb, and one in LowF/LowGb is on the way.

I haven't done it yet, but I'm going to retune them to one of the regular breath tunings that I like, I haven't quite decided which one...

Regarding half valving, I also like to play half valved with valve bends. I normally use PT Gazell valves, though since the "slide in" draw reeds are on the top plate I think the Gazell valves will hang down, and I'm not sure if breath would properly push them back up to block the slot or not.

Certainly half valving a harmonica like this one, which effectively has 20 holes, would go a lot quicker with gaskets The reeds are the same distance apart as the East Top chromatics are. I'm not sure if Brendan ever made "half valve" gaskets for various chromatics, but I think the "Trochilus / Gamechanger" might catch on popular enough to make sense.

The reed layout for the Gamechanger: [SO = Slide out, SI = Slide In, B = blow reed, D = Draw reed

SO | SI || SO | SI || SO | SI || SO | SI || SO | SI || SO | SI || SO | SI || SO | SI || SO | SI || SO | SI |
B | D || B | D || B | D || B | D || B | D || B | D || B | D || B | D || B | D || B | D | <- top plate
D | B || D | B || D | B || D | B || D | B || D | B || D | B || D | B || D | B || D | B | <- bottom plate

[Brendan]

I'd be happy to design a set of gasket-valves for the Trochilus, but ideally I need a DXF file of the reedplates.

Dominick: with your CAD skills, is there a way you could scan the reedplates of your Trochilus and convert to DXF? If not, a graphics file with accurate dimensions would suffice.

[Marty]

I'd be happy to design a set of gasket-valves for the Trochilus, but ideally I need a DXF file of the reedplates.

Dominick: with your CAD skills, is there a way you could scan the reedplates of your Trochilus and convert to DXF? If not, a graphics file with accurate dimensions would suffice.

Wow! This is great news! I'll be watching here.

Mucho Gracias!

Marty

[dominico]

I'd be happy to design a set of gasket-valves for the Trochilus, but ideally I need a DXF file of the reedplates.

Dominick: with your CAD skills, is there a way you could scan the reedplates of your Trochilus and convert to DXF? If not, a graphics file with accurate dimensions would suffice.

Hey Brendan, I can get you a accurate dimensional CAD drawing of the reed plate as soon as I get around to modeling this thing.

I use FreeCAD for my home use part modeling, I see it can export to DXF though I'm not how well it does the export.

[Marty]

Today I did try to half-valve my Tronchilus but bailed after realizing I was using the wrong glue. I tried using Krazy Glue but it dried so fast I didn't have a chance to adjust and align the position of the valve.

I did however, discover where to put the valves:

Trochilus Chrome (solo - yellow):

- All Holes - without Button Pushed
- Blow Holes:
- the blow holes without button pushed have the reed plates on top, the reeds that vibrates is the inset reed
- therefore if I put the valve on top of the inset space on the bottom outside plate of the same chamber, I get the valved blow bend
- Draw Holes:
- the draw holes without button pushed have the reed plates on the bottom, the reeds that vibrates is the outset reed
- therefore if I put the valve on top of the inset space on the top outside plate of the same chamber, I get the valved draw bend


For Richter

- For Blow Holes, Valve Bottom Outside Plate holes 1 to 7
- For Draw Holes, Valve Top Outside Plate holes4,5,6,8,9 7 to 10

For the reeds/valves when Button is pushed in:

To valve the reeds when the button is pushed in, you have to put the valves on the inside plates that are facing and touching the comb, for both the upper and lower plates. This looks tricky and beyond my skillset using indivual valves and glue. This is where a Gasket would be so effective, also increasing air tightness.

In my curiosity, I did discover that I could simulate the valve bending sound, by covering the proper slot with my thumb. My oh my! Those bends sound sweet! A bit different from a regular chrome tone, more toward the sound of a diatonic.

Once set-up with valves, this little guy (for both the solo and Richter tuning) will be mucho expressive and a lot of fun!

[Brendan]

Thanks for the posts. Since I got my Trochilus a few days ago I went ahead and designed a set of Gasket-Valves for it. I cut and tried them yesterday.

However I found that, without front reedplate screws to clamp the plates down everywhere, they destabilise the airtight fit of the reedplates on the comb and you get interference on some holes

Since most people won't know how to add front screws, I think making them available wouldn't be wise because they'd get complaints.

That's with the current material I'm using, which is quite firm and textured. Maybe with some other kind of material (smooth or soft) it can work. I'll keep trying!

But for now without front screws, individual valves are required. I find a good glue for valves is viscous Superglue or Superglue Gel. It gives you a few seconds to adjust them in place.

[Marty]

Hi Brendan,

Thanks so much for looking into this. Funnily enough, I have been chatting about the Trochilus with Andre Coelho, ( as you know, one of your recommended customizers for your Octahatp selectable), and he out of the blue, mentioned to me that “I put 4 front screws on mine. It did make it more airtight. I don’t know why they didn’t consider adding those screws.”

Perhaps the route to go could be to offer the gasket valves in conjunction with having the Trochilus made even more airtight, via sending them to a customizer like Andre. A two for one deal! You get the valving, plus more airtightness with the extra screws!

Andre is considering valving and half-valving my Trochilus with regular valves, but did mention he would see what you came up with after looking. As Dominic’s post points out (earlier in this thread) the Gasket valves would be better than the regular valves hanging down potentially causing problems, your gasket valves, plus extra screws would certainly make this little harpoon sing

Just a thought to you Brendan! But it’s a good one

Marty

Ps - thanks for tip on SuperGlue Gel

[Brendan]

Yes, doing the Trochilus Gasket-Valves together with André adding the front screws is a workable option, though quite niche! It would depend on players being happy to send their harps and wait/pay for the job to be done, including double postage costs. If it were part of a bigger customizing job it would make sense.

Short of that, the quick, cheap and easy option for now is to install single valves yourself. It's not difficult.

If enough people ask for it, probably JDR will offer a half-valved version of the Trochilus in future.

[Marty]

Yes, demand seems to drive the market. I’m very surprised that more people have not adapted, or are aware of the extra expression that valving offers. Seems to be a lot more overblowers, which although a great and valid approach to chromaticism, takes careful reed set up and big learning curve to get past the squeakiness. It’s the expressiveness of bending the note DOWN that I’m hooked on and I can’t remember that the learning curve was a big hill to climb with learning valved harmonicas.

I have reached out to Andre, which he responded:
“ I don't think for now I can offer the screws alternative as that would enter the customization category and I am not offering that for other brands. (Andre is an official customizer for one of the big ones). But I will keep you updated on the single valves once I get some time to try it.”

I would be happy to pay for all the customizing, and I do think that your Gasket Valve system is the best (I know this from experience), but right know I am waiting to hear from Andre for when he has time to do the single valve job.

I did suggest to JDR that they offer a valved version of there harps, and I also mentioned that they reach out to you, but my suggestion didn’t seem to shake them up.

Thanks again Brendan!
If I get some joy with Andre I will report back here.

Marty