Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

A space for players interested in my specialist harmonicas, alternate tunings, instructional material, recordings etc to ask questions and share information, experiences, videos etc.
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RunBanjoRun
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Re: Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

Post by RunBanjoRun » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:39 pm

Hello Ken

Sorry for the delay. These are available again now.

https://brendan-power.com/lucky13.php#lucky13SoloPC
Hey I'm the forum admin - message me if you have any ideas or requests :idea: :idea: :idea:

David

EdvinW
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Re: Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

Post by EdvinW » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:58 am

Malarz wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:19 pm
Follow up question: my intention is to uise this to play mainly Quebecois tunes mainly in key of D. I’m assuming key of D is the one to choose, right?

Thanks.

Ken
Not necessarily. Depending on how you feel about bending and what you want in terms of chords, the one in G might be better. Take a look at the tuning diagram for the key of G:
Image

This has many advantages for playing in D. First of all, the overall pattern to play the scale is rather familiar: simply blow, draw, blow, draw until you reach a place where there are two draws in a row. The major scale is very familiar to third position minor scale on a (Paddy) Richter. Further, the D, F# and A notes are all available as draw notes and can be bent for expression, which I find a huge plus. There is also a low A in the hole right next to the root note D in each octave, which is handy. Also, you have a D major chord as well as its minor parallel Bm and the double stop [E G] which could be used to suggest an Em chord (the subdominant minor parallel). For tunes in D mixolydian you might also find use for the the C and Am chords.

The drawback is that you need to bend to get every C#.

If you buy a D harp to play in D, it will be like playing in G on the G harp. As you can see there are no tonic chords, though both the dominant (D) and the subdominant (C) are there, along with their minor parallels. On the other hand, there is no bending required, which might facilitate some passages.

Keep in mind also that a harp in either key could play the other key. With the G harp, the key of D has some nice chords AND nice bending ornaments, while the key of G has some bends and and some chords but not the tonic. The key of A is also nice in terms of bends, but requires more of them. (Am has some great chords too, but I save the minor keys for now...)
With the D harp, the key of D has some useful bending ornaments (notably the fifth), and some chords but not the tonic. The key of G has some nice chords but no bends in the main chord. The key of A is the same as the key of D on a G harp.

Hope this helps some :)

Edit: The above assumed no valving. I realize now that they come half valved, and the lack of expression in certain keys is thus less of an issue.
Last edited by EdvinW on Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
Edvin Wedin

EdvinW
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Re: Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

Post by EdvinW » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:13 am

There's also another option that might be interesting: Buy the G harp and retune all the C's to C#'s!

I have a harp in this tunig myself, and it's very nice! It would ruin it for playing in G, but for playing in D (and also A) you get the best of both worlds. The chords on this tuning are nicer than those of a pure Power Chromatic in any key, you don't need any bends to play the basic D major scale, and you retain most of the nice bending ornaments.

If you just want a one-key, one-mode harp for quick, clean playing, and wouldn't miss the bent C# too much, I think this is what I'd recommend.
Last edited by EdvinW on Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Edvin Wedin

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triona
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Re: Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

Post by triona » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:18 am

How about taking both of them? Which one is best for you to play any song might depend on the tune and the chords you want to play. This might vary from tune to tune. And you could always try which one fits best for you to play the very tune. :D


dear greetings
triona
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

Sachlaw
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Re: Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

Post by Sachlaw » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:43 pm

EdvinW wrote: "Not necessarily. Depending on how you feel about bending and what you want in terms of chords, the one in G might be better"

I just wanted to add that if you are on the fence on focusing on this matter, and you tongue block and play splits, etc, I would lean toward the G. The chords tones that you will get from a PC tuned harp (and a PowerBender harp for that matter) open up a lot of variety.

I also agree with Triona, as in get them both. I have the G and D stock PC. Then I have a G that I tuned to C awhile back. Between these three, I have tons of options to dial in the "feel" of what ever song I am playing. I would love it if these were available in more keys, as this tuning, coupled with PowerBender encompassing about 95% of my playing now.

Another way to choose might be to think on the modes. If the style of music you are playing, or the song itself, lends itself to the Mixolydian mode for example, then the G (which is D Mix) might be the way to go.

For an example of this see(I am quoting a relevant part below, see section 2.3.8):

http://bklondike.e-monsite.com/pages/we ... style.html

"Occasionally, and quite effectively, they do play in the second position (Québécois melodeon players refer to playing in the second position as “playing in reverse”). The second position lends itself particularly well to some music, such as Irish polkas, imparting a certain energy to these tunes and allowing some ornamentations(sp) to be fluidly played on either all draw or blow notes. “The Wishful Lover,” played by the Murphy family, is a good example. Just for the heck of it, get out of the “first position rut” and try playing a tune you know well on one harmonica in a different position on another harmonica. It’s seldom possible (and when it is, it may give you a headache - so have a bottle of aspirin ready). By the way, “Hommage aux ancêtres” is scored in the key of A but is played on a D harmonica - in the second position. Once you learn it on that harmonica, learn it on an A harmonica - in the first position. This tune is an excellent example for illustrating the difference between positions and modes. In either position, it’s in the same key, A (F#m), and mode, aolian(sp).

"Without delving too much into the concept of modes, most tunes in this book are in the “ionian” mode : their “root” notes are the same as the key of the harmonica used to play them. On the other hand, “Reel de Village” and “Reel Levis Beaulieu” are in the “mixolydian” mode : their “root” notes, A in each case, are five tones higher than the key of the harmonica used to play them, D in both cases. Thus, the chords that accompany these tunes are those generally played for tunes in the key of A. The first two parts of “Reel Béatrice” are in the “aeolian” mode: the A root note for both parts is six tones higher than the key of the key of the tune, which is C."

They are talking about tremolos v blues harps, but the analysis of modes should be the same. This also gives you some insight as to the what Québécois melodeon are doing. They are playing diatonic instruments (I think), so it might be a good idea to takes cues from their approach.

Sachlaw
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Re: Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

Post by Sachlaw » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:27 pm

Malarz wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:53 pm
Another question: how does the PowerBender compliment the PowerChromatic? I can see that because of my musical interests one harp will never be enough!
...

Ken
Ken,
The PowerBender (PB) middle octave in any will be the same as the PowerChromatic (PC) repeating octave in that same key, just as a Standard tuned harmonica middle octave is the same as a standard tuned chromatic of the same key. If you mean that learning the PC increases the skill set of playing a PB, and vice versa, then I would say they compliment each other well, assuming you work on building melodies off of the middle octave of the PB. If you tape the first three holes on a PB, and focus on holes 4 - 7, you will pick up the pattern a bit quicker.

Is your melodeon tuned in the key of D or C? If it is tuned in the key of C, and you find yourself playing tunes in D, then what you are doing is playing the 3rd position of the instrument/Dorian mode of the C scale. I see in another comment you mentioned you had returned an F# harp to play with, but also you picked up a Chromatic. Is the chromatic a C, G, or D?

If you are playing a C melodeon on your songs in the key D, and you want your harp to match chord tones of the position/scale, then you may also like a PB in the key of C. I recommend the Lucky 13 PB version. If you want a Lucky 13 PC in C, you have to re-tune it. If you look under may name, and my posts, I believe there is some discussion in this forum on how to do this with minimal changes to the Lucky 13 PC in the key of G. If you go that route, definitely look on here for advice.

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triona
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Re: Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

Post by triona » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:29 pm

Malarz wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:53 pm
I think I am beginning to understand how to choose which harmonicas I might want—all of them!
...
After reading your posts I plan to buy at least the PC in G as a starter. Then as I begin to develop my skills I can make a better decision about which other harps to buy.
I guess you just have got it. :D
And to realize this step by step might be a quite good idea. (And if there might be some lack of money, this is enforced automatically.)

The PC in G as a starter is a good idea too. Talking about playing tunes in the key of D and related modes, this would be what there is called the "second position". Following the website about the french canadian harmonica which Sachlaw had linked, this seems to be very common within Quebecois music.

Malarz wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:53 pm
my age (67)
That is just the same with me. :D
And I have collected dozens and dozens - maybe some hundreds? - of harmonicas over the last 50 years. I never have counted them. This is highly addictive. :lol:

Malarz wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:53 pm
Another question: how does the PowerBender compliment the PowerChromatic?

I do not know the answer to that question. Although I have a Power Chromatic maybe since half a year, I did not fully understand it yet. But here are some people who can do this. (Edit: in the meantime already done by Sachlaw.)

I glanced over this site. This is a very good recommendation - not only for Quebecois music.


Enjoy your new harmonica(s). I'm sure they will breed by the time. ;)

dear greetings
triona
Aw, Thou beloved, do hearken to the Banshee's lonely croon!
sinn féin - ça ira !
Cad é sin do'n té sin nach mbaineann sin dó


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yI3H ... 9ktgzTR2qg

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Brendan
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Re: Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

Post by Brendan » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:42 pm

As others have said here, the Lucky 13 PowerChromatic in G can easily be played in D. In fact, that's my favourite position. It is similar to the low octave cross harp on a Richter diatonic in that your tonic, third and fifth are all bendable draw notes. But the good news is this pattern repeats in the next two octaves up as well.

Only one semitone bend needed to get the major seventh C#.

Sachlaw
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Re: Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

Post by Sachlaw » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:14 am

@Marlarz
Gnarly started a thread on the PowerChromatic that has a lot of good info. Brendan has given a lot of input on this tuning in that thread.

I think you will find that you will pick it up quite fast, given the regular breath pattern. The mixolydian and dorian modes were the ones I got comfortable with first. Practicing with it has yet to get old for me. I often pick one up just to workout anything that comes to mind or play along with something Alexa just suggested. The tuning fits many styles.

I started really picking up this tuning by learning how to dial in the modes on backing tracks that included multiple modes and/or positions. There are tons of backing tracks online for this. Brendan also has a really good track on his PowerBender CD that does this in the key of A.

Lizzy
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Re: Lucky 13 Power Chromatic key of D

Post by Lizzy » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:05 am

I use both PB and PC. PB have i used for several years and PC about 2 years. Latley my addiction have been more on PC but use PB from time to time. I like PC because only one note is missing and only a half bend on all holes. This simplifies it for me and i think it is a very versatile tuning for many different styles. Like it been said here already PB and PC work well together and those are my main tunings so long. I use Seydels soloist pro 12 hole diatonic in G, Ab, A, Bb, Low E and this cover the most i need.

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