Loudness of harmonicas and tone in Lucky 13s...

[danleighton]

Interested to hear people's thoughts.

I am looking for the next step up from the Lucky 13 solo instruments that I have.

I really like them for two key reasons: a. they play light. And b. they are bl**dy loud!
Downsides: they are a rough old sound - which might be why they seem so loud…

I play in a very noisy pub each week, it's a fantastic session but waaaay too loud for the Seydel 1847s I got this week (as it turns out) so they are going to be used for accompanying songs. And, tbh they feel very stiff to me compared to the Lucky 13s.

I am not a huge fan of the tremolo sound, so that kind of rules out that direction.

I am thinking about the Suzuki Promasters as they seem to have a great sound that I like. Sadly, I don't have any of them to hand to try.

So, thoughts please, how do I get something as loud and which has the lovely free playing quality of the Lucky 13, but with a somewhat better sound quality?

Any ideas anyone?

[danleighton]

Here’s my testing of six harps with a decibel meter!

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPFW9yxiKOc

[Brendan]

I know what you mean about playing in loud pub sessions!

I assume you're meaning an Irish session, where there's a bunch of different instruments playing the same tune together? Generally fiddles, flutes, whistles, accordions, pipes, concertinas... Even simply to hear yourself play (let alone the others), you have to play the shit out of your harp - which is not nice for you or the instrument! Besides losing the subtlety in your playing, it's easy to blow reeds out playing that hard.

Standard single reed harmonicas will always be quieter than these other instruments, no matter the brand or model. Compared to the other free reed instruments there (button boxes and concertinas), harps have much smaller reeds that simply push less air around.

It's a problem that I and other Irish harmonica players have grappled with for decades. Here are some solutions:

OCTAVE HARMONICA
An octave harmonica has double the number of reeds, so is noticeably louder than a standard harp. Seydel makes the Fanfare octave model in Solo tuning - you could try that.

BIGGER REEDS
Specifically for Irish sessions, I made a few prototype harmonicas using large accordion reeds. Here's a video demonstrating them:

https://youtu.be/jejsiCD172E?si=a15Tlj8j83hMgHM7

They're definitely loud! I never got around to turning them into a product for sale, but if you're the hands-on type you could explore that direction yourself.

SMALL AMPLIFIER
In my opinion the simplest option is to take along a small (pocket size) battery amp, and play through a discrete lapel mic that fits inside your hand. Because of the small size and modest volume of these tiny amps, they won't come over as overbearing in looks or sound - and should be accepted by your friends in the session. You could even have the amp resting on your lap under the table. A pocket amp will raise your volume to a similar level to everyone else's, and allow you to hear yourself without blowing out your reeds. There are lots around and they can be bought very cheaply.

[danleighton]

That is a really helpful post. Yes, for sure, it is all the above instruments!

I would, for sure love to give your accordion prototype a go - I'd happily have a chat with you about it. I happen to have an industrial resin 3d printer which could do some really useful things in terms of making a cover for that which would work. Shall I email you about it?

I have thought about the idea of a little pocket amp. We do occasionally have an electric piano so no-one would object. Do you want to know the absolute coolest thing though, now I think about it? I actually have a VOX escort amp from 1970 which was given to me by Mandy Morton of Spriguns. It is super cool, and sounds amazing Just need to get a little mic to plug into it!

I love a bit of a bend on the notes for interest, so I am not sure the Octave models would do. Also, I found that the reed response on the 1847s I bought was so slow compared to the Lucky 13 that I am reluctant to try any more! Have you got any advice on diatonics which have that same free reed feeling that the Lucky 13s have? I can't seem to find any luck on that front.

Here's a pic of the Vox amp it's small enough to sit under your chair with ease.

[danleighton]

I got the little vox working very nicely. Then I blew up the speaker when I put in new batteries. So new one on the way from eBay. In the meantime… these arrived… for the creation of an accordion reed harp… No idea what they are from. But plenty to choose from to see what I can make. It’s gonna be a monster whatever it is…

IMG_9449.jpeg

[Brendan]

Sorry for the slow reply Dan.

If you like the Lucky 13 so much, why are you looking for other harps with the same feeling and volume? If you don't have the exact tuning/key you want, it's easy enough to retune one that's close to the one you're after.

Those single reedplates look like Indian harmonium reeds.

[danleighton]

The feel is great. The tunings are all fine. I have cracked the retuning thing now. Reed profiling...still working on it. But tuning and reed replacement is no problem. The issue is that, even with a really nicely tuned harp, the sound of the Lucky 13 is... how should I put it... somewhat... agricultural? (And yes I do know how to get a decent tone!!)

However, the volume is not such an issue any more since I took your advice and have managed to create a nice little wireless mic and Vox amp setup which works great. Nice and discreet, no worries.

To solve the tone issue is trickier. I took Joel Andersson's advice and applied some tape to the inside of the covers. That really helped reduce some of the harsh overtones. I also am creating some non-metallic reedplates in wood and some cover inserts in plastic to see if I can improve the tone that way.

What I did see in your video on this page https://youtu.be/_R2rRzKm7R4?si=ksQVS8PPFo1nAzDH&t=170 is that you are getting a much less harsh tone than I get, that might be down to technique, it might be down to the microphone, or you mention that you are using a custom comb and that you were planning to make those available... Can I ask whether that ever happened? And if not, what did you do with the comb? Perhaps I might have a go at printing one myself. If you fancied sharing the stl file with me I can run one off on my ABS resin printer...

I suppose part of the question here is whether the sound of the Lucky 13 is so bound up with the manufacturing method of the reedplates that there is little that can be done to "smooth" it out, or whether some changes might make these, really nice to play, reedplates worth using in other hardware.

Thanks for all your help and advice, as always!

d.